[00:00:00.000] - Speaker 1

Welcome to the Grit Reapers, the podcast for aspiring online entrepreneurs that cuts through all the crap in the online business world and dishes out the raw and real truth about what it really takes to have a successful online business. No sugar coating, no get-rich-quick schemes, just honest advice with a healthy dose of humor and hope.

[00:00:23.620] - Speaker 2

We're your hosts, Gail and Candice, two online entrepreneurs who've been there done that and live to tell the tale. So if you're looking for straight talk, practical tips, and the occasional reality check, to get your online business moving, you're in the right place. Let's get down to business.

[00:00:46.750] - Speaker 1

So welcome back, everybody. Welcome to our listeners. We're so excited to have you here, learning all about the truth, the real stuff, the grit that it takes to launch and run a successful online business. Hi, Gail.

[00:01:02.760] - Speaker 2

Hey, Cans.

[00:01:03.830] - Speaker 1

And how are you, Costa?

[00:01:06.220] - Speaker 3

Hi.

[00:01:07.220] - Speaker 2

Hi.

[00:01:07.750] - Speaker 3

Thanks for having me, guys.

[00:01:09.180] - Speaker 1

We are really excited to have you on our show today. Thanks for giving your time and coming to share your story with us. I'm very excited to have my personal friend Costa Carastavrakis with us. I'm not even Greek, but I practiced saying that surname a lot when we met.

[00:01:27.590] - Speaker 3

Brilliant.

[00:01:29.770] - Speaker 1

Costa is a good friend of mine and is very familiar with sharing his story in front of crowds, in front of people. We'll tell you a bit about what he does and whatnot. But today's episode, we are really just showcasing and learning through storytelling. Learning from people, in this case, Costa, about the human side, the human characteristics of grit. It's not a business We're not speaking about funnels and content or any of that stuff. We are really just speaking to a person, a person who's displayed characteristics when life's handed you something less than ideal and turned it into the most incredible experiences and whatnot. So thanks for coming, guys. We really appreciate your openness and coming to share your story with us. Thank you.

[00:02:27.450] - Speaker 3

Thank you, guys. I'm ready.

[00:02:29.790] - Speaker 1

Awesome. So, I mean, Costa has written a book. He's a published author. He's a... How do you say it? A restauranteur. A restauranteur.

[00:02:41.220] - Speaker 3

Restauranteur, yeah. Restauranteur.

[00:02:42.790] - Speaker 1

Okay. He's a I don't know if you're a published poet, but I know you've written a lot of poetry and most recently got into the world of stand-up comedy and has traveled the world actually doing his show in the here in South Africa, in Greece. He's been all over, so he's really a man of many talents. But if we just back up a little bit, because maybe you can just share a bit about your story. The book is From Meth to Marathons, and it's your story, the first bit of your story, the bit that I know you, where we met when you were cleaning up, you were getting sober, and then got into this world of fitness and whatnot, and then all the other stuff happened. But maybe you can just share with our listeners today a bit about your story, a bit about the path you've been on, and then we can chat a bit about how you got to where you got to today afterwards.

[00:03:49.580] - Speaker 3

Okay. Well, my story is a tough one to hear for many people because I I've lived many different lives. And I'd like to think of my life as... Because I'm going to live past 100. My first third of my life was getting to know who the hell I was and messing it up. Because my first third of my life, I spent a large part of it drunk. I spent a large part of it very confused, confused about my identity, confused about my place in the world, and addicted to drugs towards the end of it. And I was a very high functioning individual, university, great job, even started my own business, very successfully ran it. But I was always running on empty. And I was running also on self-will. I had to make everything happen, and I had to control everything in the world around me. And that's not possible. And after a while, you're going to need some assistance, and alcohol doesn't help. And so I turned to hard drugs. And for me, hard drugs took the form of anything with the letter C, cocaine, cats, crystal meth, all the horrible, costly ones. There is nothing glamorous about any of them.

[00:05:15.690] - Speaker 3

And unfortunately, crystal meth brought me to my knees in my early 30s. And it's a very, very, very powerful drug. All drugs are very powerful. I've seen people brought to their knees on cannabis. I've seen I've seen families destroyed with DHA, let alone crystal meth. But crystal meth has a particular danger to it. It changes the way you think, it changes your reality, and life becomes something that it isn't. You're seeing things that are not there, and you think you're going mad. And crystal meth brought me to my knees in a lot of pain, emotional pain, spiritual pain is actually what I was going through. And the one day, the pain was so much, was too much to handle. And I knew I could see the rest of my life in front of me. I probably had about another year to live. The money had run out. I was now probably going to start selling things and borrowing money from people. I was going to become that guy. And then the health was going to pick up. So I was either going to lay up in jail or die. Those are my two options. And I could see both of them coming.

[00:06:33.280] - Speaker 3

And when you're hooked on drugs, it doesn't bother you. You're like, okay, well, if it comes, it comes. Let me use some more. And then I got a small moment of clarity, a tiny, tiny, tiny little window of clarity that told me that this is not the way my life was meant to turn out. This was not how it was meant to go. And that tiny little moment was all the moments of love I'd gotten in my life, all those moments of acceptance, all those moments of peace that I had in my life. That tiny gap, one or two of them came through that made me feel like I was worth something. And I took that tiny gap. And with that tiny gap is also mixed with a healthy dose of fear. Now, many people will say you mustn't live a life in fear. Fear is debilitating. Fear, for For me, was a motivator. I was scared of dying. And when you're scared of dying, you will do anything to save your life. And death was near. So I decided that one day, none of my ideas are original. I borrow from everybody else, something called the gift of desperation.

[00:07:51.940] - Speaker 3

I was so desperate to try anything to never feel like that again. And this gift And that dose of desperation came with a healthy dose of fear. And that fear drove me to blindly doing anything I could, anything. I made a promise to myself, anything anybody told me I would do. If you told me to drink purple liquid and it will get me off drugs, I would have done it. And I found a program and started listening to lots of people and just literally put my future in their hands because they knew better than me and followed It's their example. And one day at a time with a lot of fear and a tiny glimmer of hope. That's what you need, a little bit of hope where one other person believes in you. And then a ton of fear was just enough to get me clean. And one day turned into a few thousand days later. One day at a time, I started putting the pieces back together again, slowly. And I came to a lot of realization sessions. One of them we'll discuss now, the grit it takes to go places in life. And that's my drug, my drug journey.

[00:09:11.530] - Speaker 3

It's a mental health issue. It came with a healthy dose of... Very unhealthy dose of, not healthy, a very unhealthy dose of depression, anxiety, and then PTSD all resurface and a punching bag inside of me of my emotions. And now not only did I need to stop using drugs, I needed to and manage a mental health journey as if being hooked on drugs isn't enough. And now that I think about it with so much distance between me and it. I say so much distance, but my heart still races when I talk about it because it's still very much a part of me. So much distance between me, and yet I look at it and I go, gee, was that a lot. How the hell did I do it? How the hell did I stop using drugs and apply myself to the program and then tackle my mental health? And when you asked me to join this podcast, I literally froze. And I was like, oh, gosh, I'm going to give such obscure answers like, it's a miracle. It's a miracle. And And I want to talk about miracles.

[00:10:32.070] - Speaker 1

Well, that's not obviously that.

[00:10:34.080] - Speaker 3

Well, to some people, it's like we were like, oh, yeah, it's a miracle. He got clean. But I want to talk about Believing in miracles. And you can insert the word miracle, believe in yourself. You can say believe in God. You can say believe in a high power. You can believe in anything. The point is knowing that things could So it would get better. So just having that little bit of knowing that something can go better and holding on to it for dear life. And I believe in miracles because I'm one of them. And if you just sit quietly enough and look at the sun go up. Every morning, we are delivered that miracle. Look at your child in your child's eyes. I mean, we can't explain that. And there are miracles all around us. And That's where actually having a little bit of belief, call it magic, if you like, that something can happen to you. And that's what I accessed on a daily basis. Like maybe a better life is coming towards me, just maybe in the beginning. And then it became, actually, a better life is coming towards me. And then it became, I am worth a better life.

[00:11:54.810] - Speaker 3

And now I'm in the phase of, I am living my best life possible. Because that little miracle just widened and winded. When you make a one degree change, today it's tiny, but in many days time, it's colossal and massive. So I made that one little change Well, I mean, I think what you're describing sounds like this belief in positive possibility.

[00:12:26.740] - Speaker 1

The possibility exists that this could work. And that is hopeful. That gives you hope and incremental changes rather than trying to do it all at once and get to your best life in 24 hours. I mean, you haven't even detoxed from your last drug bench and you're trying to now live your best. It's not realistic. And I think that's the beauty of those 12-step programs. It's like, you don't have to know how you're going to do this next week. Just worry It's about today. Just get through today, and we'll worry about tomorrow, tomorrow.

[00:13:05.930] - Speaker 3

And the world is best understood when you slow down. And drugs just speeds everything up. Business speeds everything up. Life speeds everything up. Motherhood, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And that's where I was getting it. That's where I get lost and a lot of other people get lost is when you slow things down enough. When I slow things down enough, my business problems make sense. I get sent information on how to solve things. I can be receptive to new ideas. I recharge to give me energy to keep moving forward. Slowing down for me now is one of my biggest assets in productivity.

[00:13:49.820] - Speaker 1

Yeah, I love it. I think it's spot on.

[00:13:54.360] - Speaker 2

Because I think, so Costa, what do you do to slow down? Because I I realized this really for the first time this year properly, that actually it's in the rest you take between your daily business. And when everything's coming into your brain, you have no room to actually solve. You're just responding to this and this and this. I got out and I mountain bike and I ran and I walk the dogs. And we've just actually put two hammock chairs in the tree and I just sit there and stare into So what do you do to slow down, Costa?

[00:14:34.720] - Speaker 3

So slowing down can be a whole lot of activities that people do. I've tried meditation. I keep trying it, and I will die trying meditation. I don't get it right. But the biggest thing for me is slowing down is giving myself a break in saying, I'm doing the best that I can. What can possibly go wrong? So slowing Slowing down for me sometimes is going out and with tons of friends and having a massive dinner and enjoying and being super social. Slowing down is sometimes over eating chocolate. It's giving myself a break from having to be perfect. Slowing down for me is giving myself a pink slip saying, you want to slow down? Go for a run. I know it's the antithesis of slowing down, but it's about giving myself a break because everything around me doesn't give me a break. Instagram tells me I'm not good enough. Facebook tells me I haven't read the latest conspiracy. I don't know enough, and I'm not militant enough about something. Linkedin tells me I'm just stupid. Tiktok tells me I'm not the funiest. Everything out there is telling me I'm not good enough. And then I give myself permission to say, you know what?

[00:15:48.360] - Speaker 3

I am good enough. And then I have everything I want. And that's when I really slow down. So slowing down isn't necessarily about getting into my zen, because when I force my zen, it never comes. For me, slowing down is more of our creativity. I really, really apply myself creatively. I journal every morning. I write my three pages. That actually starts my day in the right way. And when I feel frenetic, at the end of the day, I'll write a little more. I do a lot of creativity and mood boards and vision boards. I vision board everything. Every month has a new vision board. And I let the creativity unbundle and untangle the mess to give me the energy to sort out more. So give yourself permission.

[00:16:40.420] - Speaker 1

If I can ask you, because I know a little bit about when you decided to get clean and how you did it. And I mean, you mentioned when you were chatting that you joined a program. And I think what I want to point out to our listeners is that Costa didn't actually go into a rehabilitation program. He didn't go into an outpatient program. He didn't go into an inpatient program. When I say he cleaned up by himself, what I mean is he attended meetings. The program he got into was a twelve-step program through meetings that are free and held all over the city and whatnot. It's generally not the way counselors and therapists would advise a dick to people to clean up, right? Because it's really, really challenging to do it that way. It's far less stressful. There's less temptation if you actually restrained or constrained in an environment where there are people around you and you literally are not able to get access to whatever it is that you're on. And so generally, most therapists would say, I'm not sure that's the best idea, but Costa did it this way. Whenever I talk, and I always come back to that in my mind as it takes a certain person To come out of an addiction to a psychiatric mindfuck, where you came from, and then decide, you know what?

[00:18:28.010] - Speaker 1

I don't want to die, and I'm going I'm going to clean up, and I'm going to just do it. I'm going to go to all these meetings and whatnot. I mean, it's really amazing, and I still think about it with a lot of respect for you. I'm so curious to know, what do you think? What qualities do you think helped you stay committed to that goal? How did you do that?

[00:18:56.050] - Speaker 3

I think I have a certain personality trait that That doesn't like options. I'm the guy who does my grocery shopping at the Wilworth engine. Don't give me 500 veggies. Okay, It's green or orange. All right, I don't feel like I hate carats. I'll take the broccoli. I don't have options. Too many options are what messes up my thinking in my life. And for recovery, I saw only one option. I didn't Rehab was an option, but I didn't explore it. I didn't know. I only had that. I was like, okay, well, there's only one option. Don't need any other option in. Focus. And I think it allows me to be laser-focused. If you put five DVDs in front of me, I'll watch all five. Take me into a DVD shop and ask me to pick one out of the few thousand. I have left DVD shops with nothing in my hand. I'm that old, everybody.

[00:19:59.660] - Speaker 2

I was I was going to say, are they like a full DVD shops are out?

[00:20:03.440] - Speaker 3

Back in the day, Costa, we're closing. You've been here for an hour, you haven't chosen a DVD, and I would walk out empty-handed because I was faced with so many options. So at the very basic part, there's a something in my personality that doesn't like options, that is very easy to hook into one thing, like blindly. And that's what I did. I was just like, okay, there's no options. Let me just... And not having too many options and focusing on one thing is such a big life thing for me. It's gotten me everywhere. As soon as I start putting an option, I look at my friends whose lives are a bit messy. They're forever entertaining different options and different ideas in different ways and listening to different people and whatever, whatever. There's no right or wrong way, but there is a way. Find a way. And I think that it's something inside of me that cut out all other options. And I just was like, well, this is the only option. I knew I had friends who were going to rehab. I never listened to them. I was like, I've got nothing. Thanks. I'm committed.

[00:21:11.540] - Speaker 3

I have a commitment mindset that is also something that has grown over time. And I didn't look around. I didn't shop around. I think we shop around too much these days. I think we have far too many options. And Particularly that we don't need in life. I think it's a modern crisis that we're in. And I didn't give myself options. I think that articulates it. I've never thought of this before until yesterday.

[00:21:44.690] - Speaker 1

Yeah Well, I mean, it sounds like from what you shared with us, you really didn't want to die, which tells us that you did want something. So you wanted something and then chose Elaine and just remained really committed to getting there. I think that's an incredible thing. I think watching you then, then you got into your whole fitness journey. Were you always very active? Were you always active as a youngster? Or how did you get into now, oh, my God, I'm going to go start training for Ironman and triathlons. And then you became laser-focused and went for it. So tell us about that a bit.

[00:22:32.020] - Speaker 3

I have no sporting background. I was a smoker from 15. I couldn't bear exercise. When you stop drugs, you have a lot of free time on your hands and a lot of free energy. And the energy woke me up early in the mornings. My partner at the time started running, so I started plodding along next to him. And I just ran one block and it gave me endorphins. It made me feel good. I was like, the next day, let me try run two blocks. And I was like, there's something with this incremental stuff. And the Just For Today program of recovery for me was like, hang on, maybe I can just apply that to this. And let me just today do another block. And let me not look at the next day and the next day, and the next day, and the next day. The incremental gains aspect of it got me doing more because the body is that organism that if you push it a little bit further than yesterday The day, you can do a little bit further the following day. And that's how the organism works. And so I was like, okay, well, let's just go.

[00:23:37.910] - Speaker 3

And of course, knowing me, I just went and went and went. And I gave myself no options. But I set some very low goals, very low goals. In my first six months, I wanted to run, not walk, run an entire five kilometers, even if I was trotting, but I wasn't allowed to walk. I was allowed to shuffle and run, but not allowed to walk. And I did it. I finished it in 40 minutes or something, 45 minutes, five Ks. That's a bad time. No, 50 minutes, I think it was. And I was so happy with myself. I rewarded myself with lots of food and And hats on the back because it also... It's my accomplishment. I learned to celebrate myself and my accomplishments. And not look at everybody else because there's always somebody younger, than the hotter, faster than you. And And then I set my goal from a 5K to a 10K. And then before I knew it, I was doing full Ironman and loving them, to the point where I miss those days now. But I achieved what I wanted to in the time. And I did five years of really good exercise.

[00:24:50.890] - Speaker 3

I treated my body. I made myself. I honored my body that I'd abused for so long, and I achieved what I wanted. And again, I did it through... Yeah, a lot of people are like, oh, but... And I committed to one coach. I committed to one training program. I had one type of food I was eating. Everything was just simple, just basics. Keeping things very simple. You can go so much further. And one of the reasons I gave up triathlon was because I can't stand triathletes. They're all about the tons of gear and the multitude of ways that you can get shit done or whatever I'm like, go away. I've got one bike. It's mine. I don't care about other bikes. I don't care about everybody else's plans and whatever. And they just really bloody annoying. Some of them I still love as best friends. But, yeah, again, the determination, the one day at a time, the incremental gains, and the laser focus, that's what got me over the line.

[00:25:50.200] - Speaker 1

And I love that idea of low goals. Just set yourself low goals because then you achieve them, which makes you feel like Okay, I can probably do the next thing, as opposed to like, I've never run before. I'm going to enter Ironman. No.

[00:26:09.230] - Speaker 2

And Cans, just sitting here listening to you, Costa, I can just see so many commonalities in what we speak about all the time, Cans. Because I was just thinking to myself, you should be a business coach. You're telling people to take that little bit of hope and know that you can do it and just do it a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. Focus on one thing, all those shiny object syndrome, and we just go off on this offer and that offer, and this is not working properly, so I'm going to try this. Just celebrate the gains and the wins that you are making. And maybe I'm guilty of this. Don't expect 15 people in your first webinar. You're just going to have maybe three in your first webinar, your first paid program. And then next time, be five and then 10. And so Costa, this is amazing.

[00:27:09.220] - Speaker 3

I find my triathlon coach at the time, I went on his Training camp. And when I went to the so-called camp, we were only two athletes. That's all, two. I think he prepared for 20 people to arrive, only two rocked up. He now has a business where he gets 50 to 60 people coming to a camp. He's got hundreds of athletes that he coaches. He started off with me and my friend Clint as his first two athletes, because it starts with one. And I'm going to add something else to the pot. Be careful who you listen to. Be careful who you listen to. Because if I listen to people, I would never have been able to stop drugs because people say you can't. The odds are against you. You'll never finish Ironman. You'll never get The amount of times I heard you're never going to get published, I just had to stop listening to those people. You'll never make it on stage. It's impossible to get stage time in Los Angeles. All of these nos. I don't listen I don't listen to the naysayers. You've got to have a little bit of madness, and that's what I love about Candice.

[00:28:21.860] - Speaker 3

You've got to have our madness. You've got to believe in the impossible, and you've got to have a bit of cuckoo in you that goes, Oh, you mean it can't be done? Game on. And I've got that little bit of madness, not megalomania, not hyperactive manic phases. No, I'm not talking about grandiosity. I'm talking about, Trevor Noah was peddling the same stage as I'm peddling now 10 years ago in Joburg. All right, look where he is now. He's only be there because he believes he could be there. He's also very good and committed to his craft. But the biggest piece there is he believed he could be there. And as such, I've unfollowed many, many local people, many local comedians, many local people who always tell me it's not possible. Get rid of them, people. Get rid of them.

[00:29:21.520] - Speaker 1

Yeah, I think Gail and I also talk about that a lot. You've got to have your eyes and ears open and be very selective about who you're listening to, who you're letting into your head. Again, another parallel. But I do think because I think the quality that when I think about you, I listen to your story, and I've read Costa's book. We will definitely share a link with... I mean, it's just the most... I mean, I read it in a day. I literally read it in a day. I was like, bend reading, and it's just an incredibly inspiring and painful story to read. But I think what you're describing is like, yeah, it is that grip. It's that like, I am going to do whatever it takes and I'm not going to give up unless I feel like it is time to give up. There's almost like something that you're describing around, no matter what happens to me, no matter the difficulty, yes, it's going to be sore. Yes, it's painful. Yes, it's all of that stuff. But I I'm going to take what has happened and turn it into something else or go after what I want with a relentlessness.

[00:30:42.170] - Speaker 3

And I've got it. There's a saying that I wrote it down one day and I live by, there is no substitute for immaculate preparation. Now, immaculate is not like, I'm prepared. No, when you're immaculately prepared, you know when you're immaculately prepared and you know when you're not. And there's no substitute for it. It's what it takes. It's a law of life. Show up or leave. And whatever I do now, I go, is this my best? If it is, what can possibly go wrong? What can possibly go wrong? I'm doing my best. What can go wrong? And there's no substitute for immaculate preparation. And people, we're all grownups here. You all know when you're putting your whole heart into it and when you're not. And when you're not, you're just wasting your time and everybody else's time.

[00:31:38.580] - Speaker 1

Yeah. And I think there's also something about preparation. I mean, Gail, hello. I mean, how often we speak about this, Gail. It's like, you can't just run into things. And that as having an addictive personality or people that can relate to just being all or nothing people. When you're in it, you're in it. There's often an impulsivity that comes with that. There's like schoolboy novelty to new things, and we just run in. I mean, that's okay. But it's also like, it's not really the best The best way, because when you're not prepared and you don't have a plan and you don't have strategy, the chances are it's not going to go well. Imagine you just rocked up at your first Ironman and you were like, Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I've done a couple of runs But let's just see how it goes. Someone told me I could do it. Someone told me to just visualize myself. Hey, Gail. Just visualize yourself finishing Ironman. Visualize your wall with all the post-it notes and the hundreds of people in your lawn. Just visualize it. Imagine you said that. Someone told me to just visualize it. I've done a couple of runs, but I'm sure this is going to be amazing.

[00:32:52.430] - Speaker 1

You would probably hurt yourself. It's not a good idea. It's not going to go well. So I love that.

[00:32:59.020] - Speaker 3

Imagine And always show up as if it's... I have shown up to some gigs as prepared as if I'm the guest artist on the Tonight show. I'm dressed impeccably. I've done my voice exercises in the car. I've done some Zen. I've gone through my five minutes set, maybe 100 times that day, not 100, maybe 20 times that day. I'm focused on everything, and I walk in And I'm the first comedian there. I finally go on stage, and there's only six people in the audience, of which three people are with the DJ. So there's only three people in the audience, and my mic cuts out while I'm in. The point is, I showed up as if I was on the Tonight Show, and I will always show up as if I'm on the Tonight show. I've played Chistan Yamat in Cosmo City, all right? And as if I'm on the Tonight show. And I will always be there. And Because that's where success comes from. And also small success is still success. I made three people laugh. That's 100 % laugh rate. I'm taking it. We're going to take those ones.

[00:34:16.290] - Speaker 1

Because I could talk to you for hours. It's just an absolute, really an honor to be your friend, but also to have you here with us and sharing a bit of your stories. Definitely not all of the story, but I think you've dropped some bombs of wisdom in this episode. People will have to listen to this over and over again. I know I certainly will. Gail, anything you want to add or ask before we wrap it up?

[00:34:47.120] - Speaker 2

Yeah, I just thank you, Costa, for coming on. As I said, Cans and I, the reason we did this podcast is we want to get to the bottom of what allows It allows people to have that grit and that determination, what characteristics we're looking for. Maybe if you don't exactly possess those characteristics, what can people take away? What can they focus on? I think you just gave some such actionable ideas and tips. I know this weekend, I couldn't sleep on Friday night. At 2:00 in the morning, I'm wide awake and I'm thinking to myself, Well, you know what? I'm not going back to sleep. So I'm just going to sit and I'm going to plan out my YouTube channel. Now, Cans will know that YouTube has been like a bit of a bug bear for me. Like I say, yes, I'm going to do it, and then I don't do it, and then yes, I'm going to do it and don't do it. I was just sitting there thinking in 10 years time, if I started now and I posted once a week, in 10 years time, I could have whatever, $1,000, $2,000, passive income coming in.

[00:35:59.750] - Speaker 2

In 10 years That means that it will be our retirement money. We all think that everything must happen right now. I want the YouTube channel. I want a thousand subscribers. I want my affiliate links going out. But actually, you know what? It's that long game. It's looking towards the future and knowing that this is what we're going to do and it's going to take commitment and focus. And so, yeah, it was lovely chatting with you. I could see so much of what I need to do in what you were saying.

[00:36:36.310] - Speaker 3

Yeah, amazing. Thank you, guys. Thank you, Gail and Candice. And good luck with all your work with the social funnel.

[00:36:41.610] - Speaker 1

Thanks. We will draw all the links for where you can find Costa, his book. Oh, I don't know why my video keeps cutting out. There we go. I'm back. Where you can find his book, where you can find him on socials, all the good stuff. We will drop that in our show notes or wherever you're watching this or listening to this, you will find links somewhere. But yeah. Thank you. Guys, thank you so much, guys. We will catch you next week for another episode.

[00:37:11.280] - Speaker 1

Bye. Bye.

[00:37:12.440] - Speaker 3

Thank you.