[00:00:00.07] - Speaker 1

Welcome to the Grit Reapers, the podcast for aspiring online entrepreneurs that cuts through all the crap in the online business world and dishes out the raw and real truth about what it really takes to have a successful online business. No sugar coating, no get rich quick schemes, just honest advice with a healthy dose of humor and hope.

[00:00:23.23] - Speaker 2

We're your hosts, Gale and Candice. Two online entrepreneurs who've been there, done that and lived to tell the tale. So if you're looking for straight talk, practical tips, and the occasional reality check to get your online business moving, you're in the right place. Let's get down to business.

[00:00:46.27] - Speaker 1

Welcome, everybody. Welcome back to our listeners to this week's episode of the Grit Reapers, where today we are going to be talking about a phenomenon that we see all the time and something we wish people knew. And that is to stop guru hopping. We're going to get into what that means and why people do it and what are the results of guru hopping. And so that's what you can expect in this episode. How's it, Gail?

[00:01:21.02] - Speaker 2

Hey, Cans, how are you?

[00:01:22.16] - Speaker 1

Yeah, I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited to talk about this because, again, you and I are offline having this conversation so much. I'm sure our listeners will relate to it. Yeah, let's just dive in. So daily, when we say, like, stop guru hopping, do you want to maybe talk that out a bit and explain to people what it is that we actually mean?

[00:01:42.16] - Speaker 2

Sure. So I think before we start, Kans and I just wanted to tell everybody that we believe 100% in getting help or guidance from people in the online space who have been there, done that and been successful. So we are not saying in any way don't follow people, don't go to people for coaching. What we really talk about when we talk about guru hopping is people will join a signature program and they'll be all in and all excited. And then as things go along and things may be not happening as quickly, they kind of get this shiny object syndrome. They see another person and launching, they see this next big program and all the promises that go with it, and they're like, oh, well, this one didn't work, so I'm going to go and do that one. And then they go to that one and then maybe they see a coach or somebody who's like saying, no, you know, this is the only system that's working now. And then they, they hop to that and, and I am guilty of it. I have done it and it really is. That's what we mean by guru hopping.

[00:02:56.27] - Speaker 2

And it's not only people, but it's signature courses, it's memberships, it's, you know, you just, you never sort of settle down into one particular thing or program or coach and see it through to the end. So we do, we do, we love our gurus, the ones that we have found that we just want people to stop jumping from course to course to course because actually cans, it has some pretty big consequences when you do that.

[00:03:29.12] - Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Do you want to maybe kick us off with what it is like? Why is it a problem? What do you see? What's the fallout of it?

[00:03:39.09] - Speaker 2

Okay, so for me, the fallout of it is that by hopping from this course to this person to this course to this membership, you never actually finish the thing. You build so many things, you know, you getting through this one and then you change direction and then you end up starting this one and you never actually get to the stage where you finish the thing from start to finish and you've got the information and the data associated with it. So you never actually, you never actually get to build your business because you're in the building phase the whole time. And that for me is the biggest problem with, and I did it, I did it for four, three and a half years, you know, so it's definitely a trap that you fall into and you, you trick yourself that you're busy but you're actually never doing the things. Yeah, yeah.

[00:04:39.02] - Speaker 1

I always say it's like you feel like a headless chicken on a treadmill, you know, you go nowhere fast because you, you are busy all the time because it's new philosophies, new techniques, new ideas and so you are learning, you are busy but you never getting anywhere. You're not moving anywhere, you know, for sure it's a bit of a Frankenstein job, you know, it's like you've taken from here and a bit from here and then you trying to blend it all together. But one person saying, oh, webinars don't work. The other person's saying, webinars are the only thing that works or don't email your list. The other person saying, you know, you must email your list. And so you, it compounds the confusion. No wonder so many people that are in this online space feel like their brains are going to explode because it's contradictory information. Coaches saying different things, their methods are different, you know, so no wonder people feel lost, overwhelmed and that a year has gone by, they've spent so much money, so much time, they haven't made one sale yet. You know.

[00:05:48.29] - Speaker 2

Yeah. And I think the illusion is there that you are moving forward in your business.

[00:05:55.23] - Speaker 1

Yeah.

[00:05:56.07] - Speaker 2

Because, because you've got this goal and the goal is kind of, the goal is, it's not very, like, tangible, although people put in, you know, they want to earn 100,000 a year and they want to have 15 students in there. But the goal should actually be to build something that you can test and bring in students and finish it. And then if that, if you don't like it or it didn't work, although, again, we know that the first time, it's probably never going to work. And then you do the next iteration and the next iteration. But the goal has got to be to finish something, to actually do something, offer it to people, get their input, get the information. And when you are just building the whole time, you think that that's what you're doing, but actually you're not because you're building and you're not offering, you're not selling 100%.

[00:06:52.19] - Speaker 1

And I think you, you've pointed out something that's really, it's really important, and that is that, you know, how can you make a valid evaluation? How can you come to a conclusion about a signature course or a coach if you have not actually followed through from beginning to end? Like, I'm all for hearing about people's feedback, what their experiences were like, did that launch method work? You know, why? And if not, why not? Why do you think? What happened? You know? But how can you make a completely backed up evaluation if you actually have nothing been exposed to the depth of this person's philosophy or the course? I mean, I see it all the time with the clients I work with in a different context. And that's that they platform hop. You know, it's like, okay, yes, I'm starting an Instagram account, and then they start the Instagram account. Exactly what you were saying. Oh, this is not quite working the way I want it to work. It's not happening quick enough, or no one's commenting. All the stuff that we just know comes in the beginning with growing your audience, and then they think, no, YouTube's where it's at.

[00:08:09.26] - Speaker 1

I'm going to YouTube now, you know, and then they try YouTube, and then what happens? They suddenly bombarded with, oh, my gosh, this is a new platform. This is not how Instagram works. It's all different. I've got to learn all this new stuff about YouTube. Then their friend says, oh, no, no, I've had so much success on LinkedIn. And then they're like, oh, I'm going to LinkedIn. So they platform hop, they guru hop. You can't really say whether something has worked or not if you haven't actually given it a really good go, you know? And then, at the end of that, by all means, to come to your own conclusions. Like, I followed it. I understand the way this person thinks, or this philosophy. I tried it. It didn't work for me. And then, like you saying, is using the data and your experience to come to some conclusions about what would be a better fit, and then trying that, not trying two things at the same time or two platforms, two coaches, it's like, you know, sure. It's so much.

[00:09:16.21] - Speaker 2

So why do you think?

[00:09:18.05] - Speaker 1

Yeah, yes. Carry on.

[00:09:19.11] - Speaker 2

Sorry. And I think. I think that that is why. And I've been there. I think that is why people say that they are so overwhelmed. You know, I hear it from my clients all the time. I'm just spinning my wheels. I can't get any traction. I just wish I knew, like, what to do. And I think people are forgetting the fundamentals that the people that they follow have a system or a machine that has the different parts to it that are well worked out and working all together, because they have been doing it for ten years, seven years, eleven years. You know, you can only build it one piece at a time. And I think we look to the future of what we want, and we think we should just do everything, and you trying this and trying that and never actually just saying, right, I will build this. I will test it. You know, they say that you should test an offer until it's made $100,000 before you move on, which is some guru's philosophy, but, like, it makes sense, because then you can see, you know, what are my conversions? What are the numbers?

[00:10:41.07] - Speaker 2

What am I earning per person? You know, you can see where things are working and where things aren't working without that information. You just guessing.

[00:10:51.19] - Speaker 1

Yeah, 100%. 100%. And again, you know, it's like, oh, we speak about this all the time, but it's like, this is not sexy. Not the sexy stuff. It's like, we think digital. You know, like, if you think about yourself, not as a business owner now, just as a. As a regular person living in 2024, it's like online shopping. You go online, you click a button, it's. Something's in your cart. You. You press checkout. Boom, it's done. Two days later, this thing's like a. Your door, you know? So we are used to things working quickly digitally, but we bring that into the expectations we have that. Well, now I've got this online business. It's digital, it's going to work the same way. And I mean, famous last words of every online business owner. You know, it's like that first fish in the face. It's like a big reality slap. It's like, oh my God, this is taking so long and so hard. It's not sexy to do the slog work, to keep committed even when things aren't working. To be in the mud, like that's something I say all the time. It's like you in the muddy.

[00:12:08.28] - Speaker 1

It's thick, it's messy. It's like our human brains, I don't think actually like that feeling. We want things and linear. Do this.

[00:12:18.19] - Speaker 2

Yeah, do this, then do this. Boom.

[00:12:21.13] - Speaker 1

Got what I want, you know, and it just does not work like that. So it's hard when Gail says like, stick with one offer, really refine it, test it, get to a particular revenue of income before moving on. I don't know many people that actually have that will that staying power.

[00:12:42.13] - Speaker 2

Exactly. I guess if you look at successful online business owners, for me, the most successful ones are the ones who only have like one, one big thing. Those, those guys who are doing like the millions dollar launches they have won. I follow a couple of people and, you know, Denise Duffield Thomas always says everything leads back to money boot camp. One thing. So we feel like we need to have a whole lot of things to bring in a whole lot of incomes. But if you just have your one thing, I know that you can stack it, but yeah, as you say, it's boring, it's mundane, but it's what is going to build your information. And then from there, if you want to, you can diversify.

[00:13:39.15] - Speaker 1

So for the listeners who don't know about Denise, money boot camp is her signature program. So what Gail is saying is it's the way that Denise, you know, teaches or thinks is that everything she does, all the roads lead back to that program. She doesn't have 20 offers that you can choose from. It's like everything she does is connected to her one main offer. Now, I think. I think we're getting into a little bit of like murky water. Here we go. Here's the mud. It's not clear. It's because these are not absolute statements. It's like if you don't have money coming in at all into your life, like in your bank account is literally anorexic. You know, how then can you stay committed to this one thing? Of course because again, people's emotions are going to start showing up. You're going to feel panicked, anxious, desperate. And so you're going to be looking for all the answers from all the people trying all the things we are speaking. I think Gail and I are saying now, it's like, if this is the thing you want to be doing, just make sure you can focus your energy on this one program that you're going to test, you know, refine, test again, but that you actually can live, you know?

[00:15:08.02] - Speaker 1

So we're not saying this is like, okay, guys, go all in, choose one, one product, one program of yours, and commit to it, be married to it. I mean, Gail, you know, I always speak about that mafia analogy with, like, tying that concrete cinder block around your ankles and jumping in, because, again, people get totally tied to their offers and refuse to look at whether or not they actually working with an offer people want or not. And it's because someone has told them, choose one offer. Go all in on that. Stick with it until you can validate it so you can hear it's murky. It's not saying go all in, no matter what. No matter if you have no money coming in, no matter if all the evidence is telling you this offer is not what people want. We're not saying that. We're not saying that. We're saying there's nuance to everything that we speak about. We're just saying that when our emotions play into things, when you're trying to build a city, but, like, there's not even a road yet, you are going to be looking and drawing on like a frenzy. It almost feels like an information frenzy that because you feel out of your depth, you feel lost and you confused.

[00:16:25.14] - Speaker 1

The natural thing to do is get clarity. Right? That makes sense to me. People want clarity. The problem is in seeking clarity, they land up confusing themselves even more because they're collecting courses and coaches and free resources. How many lead magnets have you opted into because someone's promising you their secret ingredient? You know, that's the next thing that I think we'll talk about, Dale, which is like, people looking for and are so convinced there's like, a missing piece.

[00:16:54.23] - Speaker 2

One thing.

[00:16:56.12] - Speaker 1

This new coach has the missing piece because everything that I'm doing is not working. You know, why do you think that happens, Gaylee? Like, why are people convinced there is this one thing that they don't know?

[00:17:09.16] - Speaker 2

I think, well, first of all, people are convinced because clever marketers tell them, you know, this one secret is going to change your launch or doing this one thing will make. People will make your Instagram post go viral. Isn't that the one that we see so often? Change this one thing about what you do and XYZ will happen. So I think that, first of all, is because we are bombarded with messages like that, and as you were saying, cans we? You are in that space of, you know, like, you. I know for myself, like, I so, so, so want all of this to work. I want to have a successful business. I see what my successful business looks like. So you, like you. You want to believe that it's easier, that that one thing is going to change everything for you instead of. Instead of understanding that there's a process to this and not, what, not one thing. I mean, not one thing. But there isn't just one magic bullet or silver unicorn that is going to take you from where you are now to suddenly having $100,000. What you can do with that kind of thing is you can look at it, you can evaluate it.

[00:18:32.16] - Speaker 2

Maybe it's a tool, maybe it's a strategy that actually is really good, but don't believe that one small thing, one small change is going to change everything. It's a process that we all have to go through, that we have to go through, you know, in following our hearts, following what we want. And, yeah, take those magic bullets and take the ones that will help you and. And leave the ones that won't help you, because it's just, again, shiny object syndrome, trying to take us away from our path.

[00:19:10.29] - Speaker 1

Absolutely. And again, it's really hard. It's really hard to stay focused. You know, there are always new softwares and new, you know, like, this is saving me time. And then there's this new app that can do. We are so easily distracted, you know, very difficult to stay focused, to say, no, not right now. You know, I've just bought this course. Let me. Let me get through it, you know, before I consider another one. And again, and I think, really, this is coming from a place of gail and I are saying, we only can, you know, we have an understanding of this because both of us were there, you know, and it was driven by such desire in both of us. Like, we so barely wanted this to work. We wanted to know, like, do I have all the pieces? Like, how do I get what you have? Like, I want that. You know, and like you say, unfortunately, I think some people that have been around a long time and have worked on their messaging and their marketing know that that's what we want. And so they setting us that you know, they telling us, you can also have this, you know, and so we get caught up and, and then I think, you know, that's why you and I always say, just make sure your eyes and ears are open.

[00:20:40.25] - Speaker 1

We want critical listening. You know, your eyes must be observing, watching. Ask good questions. Considering a coach or a program, don't just go and look at all the rave reviews because of course, the coaches only going to put on their sales page the most impactful, mind blowing.

[00:21:05.09] - Speaker 2

Result.

[00:21:06.22] - Speaker 1

If people haven't had great experiences. Also, don't just take that at face value and think, oh, well, then it must be terrible. Ask, why be critical about what you're hearing? You know, it reminds me a bit of an analogy that I use in, you know, when I, when I run that, the content connection. Gail, you'll know this because I, you've heard me say it a million times, but it's that, the Everest analogy, you know, it's like, I'll tell our listeners, like, I went through a phase. I was totally obsessed with watching all these documentaries about mountain climbers and I'm watching them and they arrive at base camp and they're about to climb Everest. And I was thinking to myself, firstly, like, what a thing to do in your life, you know, and it's super dangerous. Like, everything that I watch, I was just like half the time thinking, why would any human being do this, choose to do this? Besides for the fact that I'm always freezing cold. Like, I could think of nothing worse than being in snow and, like, also knowing my life could end at any minute. But anyway, I was thinking and it really hit me, like, nobody on this planet arrives at base camp Everest and, like, turns to a Sherpa and says, cool, what do I do?

[00:22:35.25] - Speaker 1

I want to go up there, you know? No, they would just tell you, there's no way. He's like, you can't because there is so much training that has to go into before you've even arrived at base camp. So, you know, you've got to, you're, you've got to be fit enough. You have to work on your lung capacity. You have to know that going up, the altitude, you know, it's going to be thinner, the air is thinner. You, you, there's so much. You are going to speak to people that have done it before you, you're probably going to read blogs and watch document. You're going to get your hands on anything that will help you have a successful climb. Then you're going to get to base camp having done the training getting yourself kitted out with the correct gear, you know, and then once you start the climb, you might now realize, oh, my gosh, like, the boots I bought, I should have spent that extra money because they came. These were not the right boots. You know, it's only with the action and the doing that we then able to say, okay, in theory, that sounded great, but actually, you know, I can watch all the documentaries in the world, speak to all the people in the world.

[00:23:51.21] - Speaker 1

No one prepared me for this first part of my journey. So it's wonderful to have that bigger picture in mind, which is, I think what you are saying, gali, is like, we all come in and we see the Everest. We are like, I'm gonna be on that first class airplane. I'm gonna have my laptop on the beach doing all the ridiculous stuff with the area.

[00:24:15.01] - Speaker 2

I'm gonna have launches.

[00:24:16.12] - Speaker 1

We've got the post it notes behind me on my wall. We see the Everest. And then, like, in last week's episode, which we spoke about, we hit the ground and we just start running. We're just running. We don't. We, like, have no map. We haven't done the training. We following guards that are telling us they know the way, but they've actually taken us to what, you know, the thing that worked for you all the time comes into play, and you and I are just saying, it's wonderful. It's wonderful. We know all our listeners out there, you know, have this thing that they can do that they are so good at and so passionate about. And it really just coming from this, like, intention to serve. Like, they just want to help. And that's wonderful. Know what your Everest is. But, like, we don't just get to Everest because we want to. Like, you can't summit the mountain just because you want to. No matter how much willpower and desire you have, it's not going to happen, you know? So, yeah, I think, Gail, let's touch on one more thing, which is a little bit of this.

[00:25:23.25] - Speaker 1

Like, in the search for the person with the secret, you know, people are collecting course after course and resource after resource. And you saying that a part of it is like, we just think, you know, there's just this one thing that we're missing, you know, and of course, marketing plays into that. And hearing from our, you know, peers, our friends, what's working for them. And because it's not working for us, we think, okay, we need to try something else. But do you also think, Gail, there's a bit around, like, people looking to bypass the process of it. They're looking for hacks and shortcuts. Do you think that comes into play?

[00:26:02.21] - Speaker 2

I definitely think so. And I don't, I don't think that it's intentional. Like, I don't, when I first started, I didn't realize the process that it actually took. You know, I think that we always talk about the outliers. I do think that there are the outliers. I think that the outliers are people who have probably, although we look at them and we think maybe they, they knew, you know, they may be new into a program that we are in or we, we kind of have come into contact with them and they seem to be able to, like in the first sort of 90 days they are able to launch, make money, you know, have people dming them on their waitlist, everything. And, and there are some people that it does sort of work like that for them. But I do believe that they've already done a lot of stuff in the background which we don't know about. But I don't think that people necessarily are trying to shortcut it. Like, I think people just don't realize that the process is long and so you don't realize just how long it's going to take. So when things are taking long, you think to yourself, I must be doing something wrong.

[00:27:22.07] - Speaker 2

Like I haven't got to that stage yet. And so then we do, we look for shortcuts, we look for hacks because people tell us, you know, do this one thing and XYz will happen. So we believe them because we are kind of not happy or just dissatisfied with how it's, how our process is going. But that's the thing. It's your process and there is a process and you have to go through that process.

[00:27:50.07] - Speaker 1

Yeah.

[00:27:50.22] - Speaker 2

So that is such a good point.

[00:27:52.24] - Speaker 1

I think you are so right. It's like it would be so helpful to know, no, actually you're doing everything right because this is just, this is what we expect. It's like when you go for an operation and the doctor or the anesthetist comes and talks you through, like first we're going to do this, you're going to feel a bit grumpy. Then I'm going to ask you to count back from ten, you won't even make it, you'll be out, blah, blah. So they give you a bit of a, they fill you in, like, don't freak out. This happens. It's quite normal. When you wake up, you're going to make be a bit disorientated. They tell you a little bit about the recovery period afterwards. So you are orientated to the process. And I think you are making a really valid point here, which is a lot of people get started without being orientated, and so when things are happening, they don't know. No, this is totally normal. Like, you're not doing anything wrong. Like, don't switch coaches, don't switch your platform, don't. This is just the path. You know, it's such a good point.

[00:28:59.12] - Speaker 2

And I also think cans that sometimes we may have been told that it's going to take, you know, this is what it's going to take. But I feel like it's when you first fall pregnant and you just, you know, it's just this dream and you just have this picture of this, you know, what your nursery is going to look like and your baby and everybody's going to be, like, so happy. And even if your friend said to you, like, you're not going to sleep and you're not, you're going to have pooey diapers and, you know, baby's going to throw up on you and you wouldn't believe them anyway. So I feel like some of us may already know these things, but you don't actually know it. You don't really believe it. Like, you. Yeah, there's a process, but you don't actually realize what that process is.

[00:29:50.26] - Speaker 1

Like you said, like you say, you know, you often say, it's like, we listening, but we don't really hear, you know? I know, I know. No, no, I know. Like, okay. And then you get there and you're like, why did no one tell me this was gonna happen anyway?

[00:30:07.03] - Speaker 2

Yeah.

[00:30:07.14] - Speaker 1

Okay. Well, you know, Gail, you and I, over the last few years, have come across some incredible coaches, incredible people that are doing such amazing work. I know something I value a lot. And what I look for in people that I learn from or follow, whether it's on social media or I'm listening to their podcasts, whatever it is, I'm looking for the people that are really transparent. Like, they are they are they helping with the orientation process that those are the kinds of people I really dig learning from. Like, just honest upfront, like, you know that. And, of course, it's about encouraging. It's not about disillusioning you in a way that you just feel like you're gonna jump off a bridge or something. It's like I'm telling you this so that, you know, there's nothing wrong. X, y, Z. So we've come across some amazing people. And you and I came up with this funny little name for them because we were getting all these clients coming to us saying, oh, I've done this program, or I was learning with this coach and it didn't work and almost needing, like, to call in someone to fix, I think for them, like, fixes.

[00:31:19.21] - Speaker 1

They're looking for fixes, you know, and we were like, we have this little boo boo crew, you know, the people we call in as our emergency repairmen. And so, yeah, we put together a resource called, well, it's on our website, www.thegritreapers.com. the booboo crew. We'll drop that link for you guys, but it's a small list for now. And I'm sure we'll add to it as we come across more creators, more coaches, more consultants that are really doing good work. But it's people we think are really worth following, learning from watching their YouTube staff or their podcasts, watching their stuff on Instagram because they really know what's potting. So, yeah, guys, you can head on over. You can download it. Gail, if people would like to know more about you, where can they find you?

[00:32:17.15] - Speaker 2

So we've actually, on our website, thegrid reapers.com, we've actually got links to both Candice and Myers websites. So you will find those there. And we really want to help people. We love hearing from you guys. And so if you have any questions for us, if you have any stories to tell us, we would have, you know, we would love to hear. So you can email us, you know, it will also help us to create content that is interesting to you, that relevant to you. So, yeah, find it on our website and we would love to hear from you. And you can find out more about Kans and I and what we do other than the podcast.

[00:33:07.21] - Speaker 1

Yeah. Awesome. That email address is teamhegritreapers.com. and even if it's just to give us a little, like, hey, I listened to the episode. Thank you. It was great. Like a little encouragement. It's, you know, I always say, call us crazy, but Gail and I actually really enjoy chatting to people. Like, we don't want the anonymity. We don't want the low contact stuff that, again, I think is sometimes quite appealing about an online business. For us, it's about connection. It's about, like, really understanding people, talking to them. And we're available. Like, it's a big, big value of mine. And I know in Gail's as well, in her business, it's to be available to people. So we would love to hear from you. You can find all our info on the website and that resource. Again, if you are interested in some of the people Gail and I really like, people we think are worth following our boo boo crew, you can grab that as well. But otherwise, guys, we look for Gail, any last thoughts before we end this one?

[00:34:19.11] - Speaker 2

I don't think so. I think perhaps one last thought is. So Candice and I have each other. We are like each other's sponsors. When I have the. The need to buy a new course, I always just message cans and be like, cans. I found this. And then she's like, do you really need it? Is it, is it going to make a difference? You know, is it just shiny object? Are you, is it going to help with what you're focusing on? So community is huge. Find yourself a Candace or a gay or you can speak to us and. Yeah, and just find somebody, you know, find people. Surround yourself with people that you really love and trust to give you those. Sometimes it's the hard things, you know? No, you do not need to buy another signature course.

[00:35:12.20] - Speaker 1

Angel, you are not rebranding your website. Right?

[00:35:18.17] - Speaker 2

Okay. But that's it.

[00:35:20.16] - Speaker 1

Okay. Amazing. Guys, we look forward to catching up with some of you and we will see you next week for our next episode. Bye.