Candice: And Hello, Gail.

Gail: Hey, Cands! How are you.

Candice: Good! How are you?

Gail: Good. Thank you.

Candice: Good welcome to our listeners. Welcome to this week's episode of the Grit Reapers.

Candice: And I think, yeah, Gail and I both personally have had a couple changes in our systems in kind of the people we wanted to work with, like our. Both our businesses, in their own way, have been through like overhauls and Redo's, and kind of re-looking at things, restructuring things. And

Candice: in some ways it's actually felt.

Candice: I know, for me, I think, for you, Gail, as well. It's it's in some ways felt like we've taken a few steps back

Candice: and and it's brought up like a whole lot of emotional stuff like frustration, and and kind of being back into like this lack of momentum. And so it certainly has had its challenges. I think that on the positive side. Both of us feel a lot more aligned with

Candice: kind of the vision we have going forward, and we've had some like pretty amazing conversations about insights and lessons we've learned from the experiences is that would that be an accurate description of your experience as well, Gail.

Gail: Absolutely cans. I think that

Gail: you know, often as you always say you so in the mud of your business, like trying to figure out what's happening and what to do next, that you don't often get a chance just to sort of stand back and have a look. And and I think we've both been doing some of that, standing back and just seeing what we're doing.

Gail: whether it's still aligned with how we feeling. And so, yeah, I definitely agree with you on that, and definitely getting some more insights into you know how we want to go forward and how our 2025 and beyond is going to look.

Candice: 100%. I I know there was there've been many things on both of our minds. But there was something in particular that you? You said to me. You know you've been thinking a lot about, and it would be great if we could record an episode on that. Do you want to share with our listeners what that, what that is.

Gail: Okay? So just for some context, I run a signature program along with Meg, who's been a guest on our show before called the superhero journey. And now on the superhero journey, we basically take people through the launch process. And it's more a practical program where I help them to create all the assets that they need for their launch. Using AI,

Gail: and then the idea at the end of the program is for them to launch to take that offer that we've spent 8 weeks building out together, you know, spending all that time putting it all into Kajabi, and they actually need to launch it, and I can can count on one hand, probably not even one full hand of the people who've actually gone on to launch.

Gail: Now, it really got me thinking. We finished our last cohort just before Christmas last year.

Gail: and one of my past students came back on, and she was like, I didn't join this cohort because I launched my course. She's like, and I got 29 students in it, and we all like cheered. And we were like that's amazing. And wow! And

Gail: and then I thought, but now I've got a whole lot of the say of the same group who went through the the course at the same time, like, Where are your launches, you know, like, why haven't you launched?

Gail: And I kind of thought back a little bit to my interactions with this group of ladies.

Gail: and you know some of the ladies had been working on the same offer or the same thing for months, you know literally, maybe the whole year, and not actually put their offer out into the world. Not not not actually taken that step to say, Okay, guys, I've spent the last X months creating this and come and join me, you know. Here it is.

Gail: And so it got me thinking as to why that happens, and you and I have spoken about it quite a bit. And yeah, I I have some ideas cats. I don't know if you want to go 1st with some of your insights. And then, yeah, basically, whatever we can carry on with what I've kind of learned.

Candice: Yeah. So I suppose if we just crystallize what we saying, it's this phenomenon of, why don't people take action? Why aren't they doing the thing.

Candice: even though it appears as if they doing it right, because I think the common narrative around

Candice: solopreneurs or small business owners is like they are just

Candice: stretched so thin they have no time. They are always busy, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy. Right? So it it looks as if you're productive, and you like doing the things, but actually and and that's true. I'm not saying they're not busy like saying is.

Candice: It's almost as if people, whether it's conscious or not

Candice: keep themselves in circles of busyness that

Candice: involve all the things, but not actually the thing.

Gail: The thing.

Candice: They are working towards, which is actually launching or getting some money in. It's like, you know, why does that happen? What

Candice: keeps people.

Gail: In cycles of busyness that mask themselves as productivity, you know. Yeah, exactly

Gail: as you say, Cands. These ladies are phenomenal. They are busy, they are building they are creating.

Gail: It's the one thing that really caught me by surprise in the online world is just how much you have to create. You have to be creating assets, content every single day in order to run a successful online business. And these ladies are doing the thing, as you say, they never actually doing the thing. So they're never actually putting their offers out to their audience, and so

Gail: have a bit of a theory about this, you know from, because I find myself doing it. And like I've had a lot of thoughts about it. Obviously, you know, there's the whole sort of fear of being visible, which we can also chat about which I know.

Gail: I have Meg, who's been on our program before she actually did a bit of a vulnerable share post at the beginning of the year, saying, You know, guys like, how do you? As aging entrepreneurs and feel about being on camera when your wrinkles are showing, and so there's that whole side of it. But

Gail: for me, what I realized is that when I, when I decide on a new offer, or when I get an idea of how I can help somebody

Gail: like I begin to nurture that little offer. I see that offer almost like like a living, breathing baby like it takes. It consumes you, you know, and you grow to love it. And you just grow to be like this is going to be amazing. And and people are going to love this. And they're going to need this

Gail: and this little. This little offer holds such potential, you know. Could this be my 1st 5 figure launch? Or could this be my 1st 6 figure launch? You know, you see all of these people in in the Facebook groups and stuff having these amazing launches. And you laugh.

Gail: could this be my offer?

Gail: And while it belongs to you, while you haven't

Gail: offered it to anybody. It still holds this potential, it's still yours. You still love it

Gail: as soon as you take that step to offer it.

Gail: And it's an unknown step.

Gail: you know. Then people might be like you just hear crickets, and like no, nobody wanted that offer, or nobody took up that offer. And so when that happens, and whether you you know whether you're thinking, preempting that that might be what happens, or if it's just all subconscious.

Gail: I feel like you almost hold on to it what I I do. I hold on to my office because

Gail: while they're my office they have a potential. But if I never get them out. Then they hold no potential. So it's a it's a definite. It's a definite cycle that you have to be brave enough to break.

Candice: And and as you were speaking

Candice: I think the the association I had in my mind was, you know, when I was a clinical therapist, and I would attend

Candice: monthly trainings to just like develop your own knowledge and like deep really deepen your understanding of of theories and blah blah blah.

Candice: And and I trained quite psychoanalytically, psychodynamically. So it was very like object relations based. And I mean, like really amazing stuff.

Candice: But there is a lot to be said around your fantasy world, you know. And then, really, when you bump up and into reality.

Gail: Identity.

Candice: And that is actually like a very disillusioning

Candice: process. It it can even be traumatic for people, you know, and I think that there's almost like a remnant of that in what you're describing? Because I feel like I remember my clinical supervisor once said to me, Candace.

Candice: why do you? Why do people buy lottery tickets

Candice: like, if you actually think about it right?

Candice: It's it's like, what are the odds.

Gail: Yeah, what? Other apps?

Candice: I was like, yeah, but it has to be someone so like it could be me. You know. You know how I always joke about when I speak about launching, and that whole like Casino analogy. And I'm like.

Candice: walk into the Casino, and you find it quarter on the floor, and you like all of a sudden, you like, well, somebody's gonna win big tonight, and it could be me, you know

Candice: he was, I think, where he was going with. It is like people buy lottery tickets, because yes, while it technically may be true that somebody at some point has to win. The odds aren't really in your favor. Okay.

Candice: but it allows you to play the what would I do if I won

Candice: 10 million dollars? Right? So it allows your fantasy world to become very alive. I would I would quit my job. I'd pick up my kids. You can hear there's almost like you. You can really get into the fantasy, and then our fantasies hold all our hopes and our desires. And you know, for for the for the minute you're in that fantasy world.

Candice: It feels real, it feels possible it feels possible, and I think that in the planning and the doing of the

Candice: building, a landing page, putting the form together writing the emails. You you there's so much

Candice: kind of housed in.

Candice: Well, this could turn into a Xyz business, or I could have you actually can tap into all the desire and hope, and you project your your kind of fantasies while it's all in that doing, you know the doing of the planning.

Gail: A 100.

Candice: And then branding, and you know.

Gail: And and I also think that when you in that doing as well.

Gail: you convince yourself more and more and more that it's gonna work. You know, you're writing the email. So you're writing out all the pain points. You're writing out all the benefits like, like, you know the value that you bring.

Gail: So you really, it becomes, as I said, this living, breathing. But yeah.

Gail: in your mind, a hundred percent in your mind.

Candice: You know

Candice: the scary bit is, and I know you and I have experienced this recently. It's like the scary bit is that when it then does become concrete, as in you actually do start telling people or putting it out there, you bump and crash into reality, which is sometimes there. No one's answering, and it's like that process where what you had hoped fantasized projected

Candice: crashes into. Oh, my God! It's not quite happening that way.

Candice: It it can do a lot of things, and I think it does different things to people. Right? Let's just say that it can either knock you down, and you can't get back up, or it could be like, Okay, well, that's great. At least I know that's not gonna work. So

Candice: I think the way we all deal with it is different.

Candice: But I also think that sometimes we do things without even really knowing

Candice: we doing it. I think sometimes, like our minds can be really clever, and I know you. I mean, I don't know if we've spoken about this. I'm sure we have. But at some point last year you literally said to me, Okay, now listen nicely, my friend.

Candice: Your branding. Sponsor. Okay?

Gail: Your branding. Sponsor. Okay?

Candice: And it's I mean, I really remember one day you were just like, Oh, my God! It's like enough is enough.

Gail: Yeah, it not.

Candice: Stop, stop rebranding, stop redoing your entire color, palette your.

Gail: Yeah, and.

Candice: And you you know nothing about

Candice: that. When I was doing it

Candice: I actually could feel there was something driving it like I knew it wasn't just about rebranding, but I couldn't quite put my finger on like, what what was this about like? What was this behavior about?

Candice: And I think you also have to be a little bit like ruthless with yourself. Sometimes you really have to be able to stop and and say, Hold up! What? Why am I doing this?

Gail: Yeah.

Candice: I think that what I actually realized is that sometimes when I feel anxious

Candice: because I don't know like it's unknown, I don't know how this is gonna go. I don't know if anyone is gonna want this.

Candice: and it makes me anxious. And so what I do with that feeling.

Candice: My personality is that when I have a list of things I need to do, it helps me manage anxiety like I take off. I feel like, okay. You know I've got the list. I know what I need to do. So it actually lowers my anxiety, and what I was doing was really just like an avoidant behavior. I was

Candice: running away from the dpep feeling which is like

Candice: God like, is this gonna work? Is anyone gonna want that

Candice: to? Well, if I'm so busy for the next week, like again rebranding. At least it feels doing something.

Gail: Exactly Cands, and I think and and I see it in myself as well. And I I feel like

Gail: revert back to what I can control.

Gail: So when I'm feeling in that anxious space, you know, when a launch is imminent or I'm about to send that offer email guys, I've done this, you know. Would you like to come and join me?

Gail: My my sort of default is to is to do something that I can control, and for me again. Cands. Yours is rebranding we love. I remember phoning you and saying, Candace, the next time you decide to rebrand, phone me first, st because I'm gonna tell you. You don't need to rebrand again, and what's going on mine. I definitely had some. Some.

Gail: you know. Thoughts about this over the holiday man is to default back to either.

Gail: Like, if there's part of the launch that needs the the technical side, I'll go in and I'll check it all again, even though, that I know that it's checked. It's green on my to, you know my to do list. It's done. I'll go in and I'll check it again, or I'll go onto social media because I can lose myself on social media. I can. I can scroll. I can do whatever so avoidant behaviors. And I think when you can identify them.

Gail: you can identify how you feeling, and that's helped me so much. I mean, I've launched 2 offers this year already. One had no success. Well, sort of success. People said, yes, but not now. The other one has had a bit more success, and

Gail: like like it, it's helped me to understand, and it's helped me to be able to let go of the outcome more easily. I understand I get anxious, and I understand that

Gail: I don't sleep as well. And I, my default is to pull up social media and just scroll, because it kind of gives my brain something else to do rather than thinking about it. So I think if you can, if you can identify those behaviors and maybe put something in place of them. And just say, you know, this is this is what I'm feeling, and I just need to push through. I think that is really helpful.

Candice: And and I also know, just like just reflecting on

Candice: how I started this to where I am now.

Candice: I just came in with so many like

Candice: misconceptions about how this was going to work. You know my personality is like very organized

Candice: love, a good to do list, you know, and I just felt like this was all gonna happen in like a really linear way. Do.

Gail: And this will happen.

Candice: When it didn't happen like that. It really like

Candice: not as dramatic as like fragmented me. But it was.

Candice: It was like really difficult for me. I didn't know how to just be in like not knowing and like in in messiness, in gray. You know I there's a part of my brain that wants black and white.

Gail: Yeah.

Candice: Even though I know logically that's not how life works. I mean, I know all of that.

Candice: But my brain, I think, wanted it to be black and white, and then all of a sudden, I was in this gray, you know, like you were saying, I call it like I often speak about how like we just got to get in the mud, you know, and the more you try to get the mud off you, the more it like sticks to you, you know, so it's almost like.

Candice: I think, what would have been so helpful. I don't know if it's

Candice: reasonable to think that I could have, but I don't know. It would have been helpful to know from the get go

Candice: if you're an entrepreneur, and you don't like being uncomfortable. This is gonna be help like it's gonna be helpful

Candice: being in the not knowing just like months sometimes, where you just

Candice: lost and you can't see. And it's it's actually not part of it. You you can't escape that. You actually can't. If if and I actually think if you're doing a good job in your business

Candice: you are gonna have that you should have that cause

Candice: listening to your audience. You're watching, observing you, tweaking your offers to match what you see like. It's never once and done.

Candice: and a lot of us. I think I think I can speak for a lot of people.

Candice: There's this desire that it will be like that. It will be this one, linear, black and white, and when it isn't, whether we know it or not, we find these things so for me it was rebranding. And at 1 point I said to, Okay, Gail, I'm going to be your course sponsor like normal courses.

Gail: Not just buying courses.

Candice: And stop getting into memberships like Stop and you need to be my branding sponsor because we both had these behaviors where it was about something else.

Gail: Yeah.

Candice: Was really just preventing us from getting out there, and just like actually doing the thing that would have been the most helpful, which is like, Oh, no one's saying, yes, that's really helpful. So I'm not gonna waste my time on that. Okay, let's go to the next thing you know.

Gail: Yeah. And Cands, as you were saying, like, you don't know whether you could have done it without learning all of this, and it would have been nice if somebody had, you know, if you knew it beforehand, and I feel like

Gail: I feel like it's as you were saying, it's just all part of the journey, and I feel like, even if somebody had. Well, I mean, people did tell us people tell you all the time, you know, you know, like, like, validate your office. Okay, and and again, this, this has really helped me. So I sent you. I put out 2 offers, one I didn't validate. I just presumed I just thought I knew what people wanted and the one I did. I took the time to survey my audience. I asked questions.

Gail: and the that's the one that works so like you can mitigate these sort of circumstances

Gail: by following some best practice. But I don't feel like

Gail: I really would have believed it until I had got to this stage. So I feel like

Gail: like everybody's journey is gonna be everybody's journey, and whatever your journey is, is the right journey for you as long as you are moving forward. As long as you are putting offers out there. And again, like do the do the monetize before you make it? I know that absolutely petrified me when I 1st got into the online world

Gail: like, how could I offer something without actually have it have it like. But that 1st offer that I built. Yes, I built some things out. I built out it

Gail: a sales page, and you know I did build some things out, but I didn't. I? I built the bare minimum.

Gail: and then it didn't work, and I don't think it didn't work, because I got people saying I'm interested, but just not now. So remember, Alexey said. If somebody says no, it's not a No forever, it may just be. No, because it's not the right time or no, you know not this offer, but maybe your next office, so don't don't let it. Don't let it derail you, which I think is also I've got to the stage where, when people say no to an offer.

Gail: it doesn't derail me Cands. I remember, if you remember last year how my one launch, where people actually said yes, and I should have been celebrating. And I was like, Oh, but I only got 3 people thought it was the end of the world like

Gail: you move through that. And when people say, No, it's a, it's a chance to learn and say, Okay, right? Not quite like that. And then you tweak it again. And so, yeah, I think if you but if you stuck in that place where you're not actually offering what you're doing, putting it out to your audience. Then.

Candice: Say, no. Okay.

Gail: He hasn't done.

Candice: Actually never know. Gail, I know I've I've spoken to you about this client I worked with last year that

Candice: like so interesting like just loved working with them. And they called the uncertainty experts right? And

Candice: they basically help people manage not knowing

Candice: in when it comes to something with their work so like, whether you're a 9 to 5, and maybe there are like retrenchments happening or like redundancy. And then that unearths a whole lot of like anxiety, and not knowing, or whether it's like for us, like our entrepreneurial kinds of people who never know month to month, what is their cash flow. It's really in any work context, how we manage

Candice: uncertainty not knowing. And one of the things I learned from them was, they speak

Candice: a lot about these. They call them safety behaviors. You know the things we do as humans

Candice: to prevent us from feeling the uncertainty, the not knowing. So I know I had said to you, but maybe even for our listeners, if if people would be interested to hear a bit of the science, the thing that's amazing about the uncertainty experts is

Candice: they've got Catherine, who calls herself like a rebel scientist, and then Sam and her husband, who's like just this, like Ted Talk, Ted talker, Ted speaker, author, and and he's like a real living day pirate, you know. He's all about breaking the rules, and oh, they just like just the most dynamic duo.

Candice: But when they teach and talk it's a lot of storytelling baked into. Then what does the science say? Like the neuroscience of how the brain works.

Gail: And I thought it would be such an interesting conversation to maybe invite them on to our podcast, to

Gail: made me.

Candice: About these safety behaviours.

Candice: you know, so maybe our audience can tell us if it's something that interests, and we can always look into it

Candice: And I'd love to hear. And I know Gail, too, like if you've listened to this, and and it's like sparked something in you. And now you're all like, oh, my God! I also.

Candice: every 3 months, or I'm constantly building landing pages and writing email sequences. And whatever what is your

Candice: where do you find yourself what what catches you, that keeps you busy. But actually, you, starting to think might be like.

Candice: prevent you from actually just taking action, you know. So.

Gail: Hmm.

Candice: Yeah. Let us know any last thoughts.

Gail: You know. I remember one thing that James Wedmore always says, and he's like.

Gail: you know, if you want more revenue in 2025, or wherever we are. When you're listening to this, podcast

Gail: you have to put more offers

Gail: out to more people more often. And I think for me, 2025 is going to be the year. So I've got my 2 signature programs that I will be offering regularly.

Gail: I am going to be testing offers and speaking to people. And you know, as you all know, I'm a big AI person, and I use AI a lot for audience insights, and it can tell me a lot of stuff, but

Gail: it can't tell me what people would be willing to pay for.

Gail: and it can give me good foundations. It can give me good ideas, but it's ultimately the people. So you have to test. And and in order to test, you have to put it out there. So survey your audiences with your offers before you spend all this time building. Once you've got enough people who've said yes. And again, it's not a hundred percent guaranteed. But the more people that you sort of speak to, and who give you their insights.

Gail: the more likely you are that people will put their hand up, and then you've just got to go for it. And and hopefully, that baby just grows into an amazing online business. But until you put it out there you will never know.

Candice: Yeah 100%. That's good advice. Thanks.

Candice: Well, we'll catch you all next week. Thank you for listening. And anything that's on your mind, Gail and I really do. We really do like speaking to people, you know.

Gail: We love, speaking.

Candice: Relationships and humans. And so we are available. And yeah, you can always get hold of us. Otherwise, everything is on our website. Www, dot the gritreapers.com. All the episodes are there. We're on all the directories, and you can find Gail and I, and we like we nice people. We do like speaking.

Gail: Why not?

Candice: Otherwise we'll see you guys next week.

Gail: See you next week. Bye.