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Welcome to the Grit Reapers, the podcast for aspiring online entrepreneurs that cut through all the crap in the online business world and dishes out the raw and real truth about what it really takes to have a successful online business.

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No sugar coating, no get rich quick schemes, just honest advice with a healthy dose of humor and hope. We're your hosts, Gayle and Candice, two online entrepreneurs who've been there, done that, and lived together.

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Tell the tale. So if you're looking for straight talk, practical tips, and the occasional reality check to get your online business moving, you're in the right place. Let's get down to business. Welcome back, everybody, to this episode of the Grit Reapers.

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And our guest today is. You won't actually believe it, but my other brother, David. And so how are you today, Dave? Very good, thanks, Gail. That's good to be on your podcast.

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Good, good. Yeah, good. I'm good, thank you. Welcome, Dave. Thanks, Candace. So the reason we asked David to come on the podcast this week is because he has been lucky enough to be a team doctor for the UAE cycling team.

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So, you know those guys who ride the Tour de France, who ride the Paris Nice, who do all those crazy races? Well, David is right there with them, and so I thought it would be a really great place to bring him because he's obviously got a bit of insight into these top athletes.

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But before we go there, I think, David, if you wouldn't mind just introducing yourself, tell us a little bit about yourself, like where you started, how you got there. But actually, maybe before we do that, maybe I can just tell a little story about my brother when he was in what we call in South Africa, Standard 3.

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Now, his older brother had gone off to boarding school at a place called Clifton Nottingham Road. And David decided that he wanted to go too. But his grades weren't very good, you see. So my parents said to him, now, I could have this a little bit wrong, but my parents said to him, your grades are not good enough.

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So if this year you can pull your grades up, even just to be just above the class average, you don't have to be the best in the class, we'll consider letting you go to boarding school. If you don't, you have to finish up at the local school and the following year when you are a bit older, whatever, you can go off.

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So now this is. This is in grade three. Well, David never looked back, put his head down. I think you were like, top of the class that year, never looked back, went off to medical school. Top of his class in medical school. So it just shows with the right incentive, you can pretty much do everything.

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So with that little tidbit, David, the floor is yours. Tell us about how you got into sports and cycling and. And stuff in particular, David. Thanks, Gail. Well, yes, I guess the most important thing is I'm your brother, but as far as medicine.

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Yeah, you about correct with the Clifton Nottingham Road. I think I was actually failing Standard three. And the next term, it didn't take a year, it took one term. And if I remember Rightly, I got 96% for science that next term after having failed at the term before.

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So, yeah, the teachers Think you were cheating? There were a few of those questions. My school report always used to say if only he applied himself. So perhaps the teacher decided I had applied myself.

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Yeah. So then went to high school and finished school and I was actually the last person accepted into medical school at University of Advatersrand when they realized someone hadn't arrived a couple of weeks after the term had already started.

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So I needed again just to kind of prove I should be there. So the end of the first year I had the top marks in the class and yeah, that was, that was med school. I then went into emergency medicine and spent some time in the UK and then came back to South Africa and was doing was running a one of the private emergency units in Durban.

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In 2015 I had a health scare which meant I couldn't work for a number of months and was sitting at home getting bored. My children by this stage had moved out of the house, they'd moved overseas.

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So I had a bit of time on my hands and I decided that it was probably time to do a bit more studying. So without any ideas of changing career path or speciality, did a master's degree in sports Medicine, Sport and Exercise Medicine at uct.

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And that opened a whole lot of doors. One of them was into the cycling world because the, the professors and some of the colleagues at UCT are involved in UAE Team Emirates xrg which is the top cycling team in the world.

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And they were expanding their medical department at the end of 23 and invited me if I wanted to join and be one of the team doctors.

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Having been a cycling fan all my life, it was a easy decision. It was a no brainer. It was a no brainer. Yeah. So spent the first contact with the team was in December 23rd.

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We have a training camp. In fact all the professional cycling teams have a training camp at that time. And then during 24 and the first part of 25 I've probably done now altogether maybe 120 race days with the team.

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So that will be looking after the athletes at the races from a general day to day medical conditions and then also occasionally. Unfortunately cycling is a relatively dangerous sport.

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So looking after post crashes, whether that's simple stuff that we can deal with in the hotel or whether we need to go to hospital. That's basically what happens in the on the race days.

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Then there's also a lot of behind the scenes admin looking after athletes for their day to day medical needs. So each doctor in the team has assigned athletes that we in contact with on at least Weekly, but often more frequently than that to deal with any niggles, any advice from a medical point of view.

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So yeah, so that's, that's the, the path. And yeah, okay, so I'm going to take over a little bit here if you don't mind, because we were just joking about it earlier. So. I am very into cycling because of the people that surround me.

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My two brothers love cycling, my husband loves cycling. So we are, they are always in contact and always talking about the races. So invariably I know what's going on. But a lot of people who may be listening, you know, may not know too much about these races.

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So I wonder, David, if you could give us some ideas. You've, you have been on such a wide variety of races. Like right from this, this beginning of this year where you did the Tour of Alula, I think in Saudi Arabia, you've been to Rwanda where like a week before there just been a huge war, you've just been in Paris.

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So maybe to start off with, you could just give us a bit of an idea of the types of events that these riders are taking part in and, and how often. Because that's the thing that amazes me. It, it's like when it's race season, the team, our TV is just never off, there is just always a race on.

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And I just think to myself, how, how can people just be racing all the time? So maybe you could just give us a little bit of context. Okay, so let me just tell you a little bit, perhaps a little bit more about the team and how the team structured or let's take that even a step back, how cycling is structured.

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So we have the UCI which is the governing body of cycling worldwide, and the races are, are organized under the auspices of the UCI and there's different level races.

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So there's the top tier would be the World Tour races. And so that's races like the Tour de France, Tour of Italy, Tour Spain, some of the more prestigious one week races like Paris, Terreno Adriatico, Volta Catalunya, which is on at the moment.

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Those are the multi day races. There's also a whole series of one day races which are at World Tour level. So recently we had Milan Sanremo, that's a 300 kilometer race from Milan to Sanremo.

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Then we about to enter the classic season, what's called. So there's some races in Northern Europe, Belgium and France which have been raced over the same roads for over a 100 years.

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So coming up we've got Tour of Flanders, Paris Roubaix and so those are the World Tour races. The next level below that would be the, the professional races. And so for example, you, you said I'd been in Saudi Arabia at Ulula.

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That's a professional race. There's also a whole lot of one day professional races and then there's a tier below that called the 0.1 races. So there's a structure to the race calendar. UAE Team Emirates XRG is a World Tour team.

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So there's 18 World Tour teams and we are obligated to enter every of the World Tour races. And in addition we can enter the pro races and the 0.1 races, which means that the team will do about 500 race days during 2025.

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So simple maths tells you that on average there's more than one event going on every day. In fact, if we Talk about today, 28th March, there's a race in Italy, copy Bartali.

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We have a team of seven riders at that race. There's Volta Catalunya which is a race in northern Spain. Again seven, seven riders there. And then there's one of the one day races in, in, in Belgium called E3.

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So we've got seven riders there. Yeah. So today we've got 21 riders who are currently racing on the World Tour team.

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There's a maximum allowed by the UCR of 30 riders and we currently have 29 riders contracted to the team. We also have a development team. So that's basically a junior team with 12 junior riders and technically that would be under 23.

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Although what's, what's been happening with cycling in the recent number of years is that the riders have been developing a lot quicker. So whereas 10 years ago and under 23 rider would have been seen as a very junior rider, certainly in the era of Pogar we have under 23 riders who have been winning Grand Tours.

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So our development team now is, is concentrating on, on riders basically up until the age of 21. Once they get to 21 then they are seen more as a, as a full World Tour rider.

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So today there's a stage race in Portugal for the junior team. So as I say, we have 21 out of the 29 World Tour riders currently racing and seven out of the 12 junior races currently racing today.

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Today that's not normal. On average there will be almost always an event and most quite frequently two events. So that just gives you a bit of background. Yeah, into the whole team structure.

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I must say I found, I found this whole world of cycling just so fascinating. The stories that David sort of tells us and how it's organized. And it's just. It's like a. It's like a huge corporation, and it's just, you know, it's just like a machine that just really works, like, so efficiently.

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So. So, David, that's. That's amazing. So maybe. Maybe now what you can do for us, because our podcast is, you know, on grit and resilience. And I just, you know, you've just come back from Paris Nice, and you've been sick, as I'm sure people can hear you, still a little bit snotty.

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The whole team seems to have got sick. And I was watching some of that rid and the cars were riding in snow. It was pouring with rain. It was freezing cold. I mean, we saw pictures of you with, like, jackets and everything, and here these cyclists, you know, in the lack.

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And so. So I think it ties really well in with our sort of theme of grit and resilience. So you've now been working with some of these top athletes, as you say, like today. And you guys will have to tell me the rest of the names.

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I know them when I hear them, but, you know, they really are. They are amazing. What. What is it that kind of lets them go out day after day, riding in the heat? I've seen the cobblestones, like, riding in those kind of conditions.

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And then 300 kilometers in a day, or like a stage race like Tour de France, where it's just every single day, like. Like, what is it? How do people get to that stage? So, yeah, that's.

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That question you're asking is really the holy Grail as to how do you find these very special people? Yes. So just maybe to set the scene a little bit, Paris Nice is literally a race over eight stages which starts just outside of Paris and ends in Nice on the Mediterranean.

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Its Balan is race to the Sun. Because traditionally you start in Paris and the weather's generally not very nice. And by the time you get to the. The to. To Nice on the Mediterranean, the sun shining, and everyone's happy.

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Unfortunately, it often doesn't work that way, and this year was one of those years. We started in Paris, two days, awesome weather, a cold front then moved in during the third stage, and literally the temperature dropped by 10 degrees down to freezing while the guys were racing.

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Then there was a hail storm. What the organizers did, quite rightly, because they were about to enter quite a big descent where they would have been going at 80, 90 kilometers an hour on a road covered in hail.

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It wouldn't have ended well. So the organizers actually neutralized the race, which meant they, they put a organizer's car in front of the group of riders and slowed them right down as a safety measure. And then once the hail storm had, had, had passed, they started racing again.

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And there were some interesting pictures because one thing that happens when you exercising at that intensity, blood travels to your periphery. And if the temperature drops suddenly and you aren't, you don't have the right clothing on, you can become hypothermic really quickly.

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And just looking at some of those TV images, there were riders who were literally putting their hands onto the engine of the race, motorbikes, just to try and get some warmth back into their fingers. And unfortunately, so they finished that stage.

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And one of our riders won that stage by the time it ended on a climb back up to a little ski resort. So by the time they came to the finish, it was snowing again at the finish. The next day it rained for five hours.

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There were five hours in the rain and the temperature never went above 4 degrees. The next day it started off okay, and then about halfway through the race it started raining. And then they went up a big climb, finished in a ski resort in the Snow.

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So riding 200km, which would be on average what one of these stages are in the best conditions at that intensity, for your average person to do that once would be amazing.

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These guys, it's erase, it's eight stages, it's back to the hotel. There'll often be quite a long transfer after the stage, so you might get back to the hotel at half past six, seven o'clock at night, then it's massage, dinner, they're probably in bed by 11:00 that night, and it's rinse and repeat.

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The next morning, you up and you're racing again. And as I say, for Paris, that will be eight stages. For Tour de France, that will be 20 stages. So to have the mental ability to keep going day after day, that's, you know, not only the physical characteristics that you need for a rider, but they need that personality and that mental ability just to keep going day after day, despite the weather conditions, despite the fact that it very rarely does your race go as you had planned.

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Remember, if you're talking something like the Tour de France starts with 23 teams. In each one of those teams, there will be at least one or two leaders who are racing for the general classification.

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So you've probably got 30 people who arrive at the start line with the intention to win the race. And so that means you're going to have 29 people who are, who haven't fulfilled their aim at the end of the race and one person who has.

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And then in six weeks time you're going to rinse and repeat and do that again at the Tour of Spain. So you need to be able to deal with the acute difficulties of the physical difficulties of racing those sort of stages combined with the conditions, whether that's very cold or very hot or perhaps nice weather.

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But you also have to deal with the fact that most of the time you're not going to achieve what you set out to achieve. And so how do you keep that mental resilience to then go back? What did I do right? What did I do wrong?

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How can I improve? Speak to your coach, speak to the team, speak to the medical staff and try again. And for some riders, that literally will be their career. Their career will be trying to win one of these races and never actually getting there.

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Oh, as you carry on cans. And do they know that or do you feel like they believe they will win it one day?

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So, so, so Candace. Cycling is a very interesting and fairly complicated sport from a team point of view. Most people who are sort of new to watching cycling equated to like perhaps someone running a marathon.

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Cycling is quite different in that you basically have a team. You'll have one or two riders who are, whose ambition is to win the race and the other riders are there to support that rider.

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So as I say, we have a team. If we're talking a Grand Tour, we start with eight riders. We will have probably one very definite nominated leader and perhaps one of the other guys will kind of be the backup leader in case something happens to number one and the other six guys job is to work for number one.

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So it doesn't necessarily mean that if you didn't win the race, you didn't achieve your job because your job might have been as a climbing helper or as a man on the, the, on the flat roads, but there will be leaders who will go through their entire career whose objective is to win a Grand Tour, who don't manage it.

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And yeah, so it's a tough sport, it's just, and for them to come back and back and back again. And this is what we talk about so much in this online business. It's, it's doing something, not achieving what you set out to achieve, then being able to say, right, detach from that outcome what went, what worked, what didn't work, and what should I do to try again the next Time.

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Sure. Yeah, yeah. As I say that, that unless you are a Pugachar or Vindergaard or perhaps an Eventful, that that is a lot of what you're doing.

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If you're one of these leaders in, in, in or even one of the, one of the helpers. You know, sometimes your race, you weren't able to do what you're, what you were assigned to do in the team. It's very easy to then spiral down into a dark place because things haven't gone your way.

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So how do you take that next step? Analyze, change things, try again. And David, do you. Have you found. So when we were talking earlier, we were kind of talking about the personalities of these people.

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So. So I guess what I find in business is that every time I do something it becomes that little bit easier to do it again. You know, first of all, it's kind of the unknown that might hold you back a bit. Then you do it, then you start doing it. You kind of get into a rhythm.

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So I'm sure these guys are, you know, they, that's, you know, they, they kind of expect that. But having said that, like, there's definitely times that I'm like, oh my gosh, like I just want to stop doing this. Like, do I have to go and try this again?

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Like, what is it? Are there certain personalities or are there certain things that you've noticed that they do that allows them to keep going day in and day out? Sure. So, so I would think that the simple answer is that if you look at a group of people who have the physical capacity to ride a 200 kilometer stage race at 45 kilometers an hour, in other words, people who've got the physiological engine to do that, there will be a lot of those people who won't have the mental capacity to be able to do the stage races.

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And so we almost, by the time you get to a World Tour level, they've been self selected. They have both the physical engine and they have the personality traits that allows them to doggedly just keep hammering at that nail.

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Obviously there's a lot of support that comes from the team. So there's support. Really what's important when you either racing these, these stage races or even if you're in a big training block.

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So we will do altitude training camps where the riders will literally live in a, in a village at altitude. And generally we now using Pradolano and Sierra Nevada and southern Spain.

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So that's a, a village at two and a half thousand meters above sea level on a Big lump of rock. It's a ski resort in winter and in summer it is basically a ghost town.

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It's completely closed down. There's 20 restaurants and one is open for lunch. And there's a whole lot of supermarkets and they're all boarded up. And there's a couple of professional cyclists. It's really, it's like living on the moon. And so whether you either racing or at one of these training camps, you, you need just to have that dogged approach of you getting the six hour training schedule from your coach, you're getting support from the team, so you're getting nutritional support and medical support, but you've just got to go out and you've got to hit those numbers and then you'll get feedback from your coach who will look at your power outputs, who will then rate whether you achieved what was planned in that session and your sessions going forward.

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So you have to be able to. And, and most of these guys are in their mid-20s now. A lot have family. So if you had a training camp, you're away from your family.

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If you're racing, you're away from your family. So it really becomes quite a monistic type of lifestyle where it's basically eat, sleep, bicycle, eat.

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And so you have to have that personality where you can see little, small, little incremental gains that within allows you to, to see the big picture of, of where you, where you're aiming to get to.

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I was going to ask a very similar thing because you obviously, you mentioned you get assigned riders so you are obviously kind of managing a couple. So you spend time with them, you talk to them, you get to know them.

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And I suppose what you're saying is like in a way it sounds to me like it's quite like analytical. You know, there's data, there's, it's very like, okay, this is the output, this is what. And that they have the ability to take the data feedback and then persevere.

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Go again. So it's not even though it, there is a charge of emotion, for example, you know, you don't perform the way you thought, obviously you're going to be disappointed or frustrated. But it does sound like it, it's quite like almost like a scientific kind of like very data driven thing which maybe helps kind of not let those emotional kind of experiences get too big or you know, I'm also assuming, Dave, that these guys must be super disciplined, right?

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Like characteristic is that disciplined. Super disciplined, Candace. And you've hit the nail on the head. So cycling is very data Driven. One of the reasons is that on a bicycle, you can now attach a power meter.

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For about the last 20 years, power meters have been available. And so it's totally changed the way people train. So literally, they will get a training prescription which will say three hours at 280 watts and then 10 minutes at 400 watts and then 10 minutes at 200.

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So, so the training prescription literally is, is, is minute by minute, what power output you should be producing. And so it, in a way, having that very analytical approach, that very scientific approach makes it a little bit easier.

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They have clear goals that they have to aim for. It does also add another stress because now we can see on every training session, has this guy done what was prescribed?

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Okay. Or has he not hit the numbers? And if he's not at the numbers, then we need to know why he hasn't hit the numbers. And, you know, everyone has their own, their own life out of cycling.

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So is there some personal, some family issues going on? And perhaps he's not as concentrating on his cycling. So it's nice to have that very scientific approach.

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It's nice for the riders because they know exactly what's expected. But it does add another pressure, and that goes through power meters, heart rates, nutrition. They will get a detailed meal plan for every meal, for every day, how many carbohydrates you need to eat?

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Because on the back this afternoon or this morning, you burned 4,228 kilojoules, so you need to eat this much carbohydrate for dinner. And so again, it's another

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objective that they have to reach. And, you know, have they eaten too much? Have they eaten too little? So there's a lot of. Judging wouldn't perhaps be the right term, but there's a lot of, of, of specific goals that they need to meet, and that's all monitored.

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So, again, that's another stress. And I guess when they are on race, when they are racing, things like meals and things like that get taken care of for them. But when you are not actually, you know, in a, in a race and you still.

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Then are you. Are they preparing their own meals and then trying to get all of that? So that's a whole nother layer. Yeah, there's. There's basically three scenarios. So racing, we take, like, we take a doctor to each race, we take a chef to each race, and the chef gets the meal plan for each rider.

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And it's scientifically worked out. And really the rider doesn't need to do too much equally on one of These altitude training camps or the team training camps, their nutrition is sorted for them. And that. And between the training camps and the racing, that probably takes up half of the days in the year.

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The other half they will be at home and then, yes, they will get on an app how many kilojoules they've burnt during that training session and how much carbohydrate, how much protein they need to consume.

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And look, most of these guys have done it for a while and so they pretty good at, at making the correct meals. Yeah, cycling has a history with low energy availability is, or that's probably the correct term.

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So with cycling, especially if you're one of these leaders on a team, if you're looking at a grand tour, the race is usually won on a climbing stage. And so when you're going up a hill, the main thing that you're doing is you lifting your body weight up a mountain.

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And so the less body weight you have, the faster you're going to go up the mountain. So traditionally cycling, it was about as being as skinny as you could be, losing as much weight as possible, we've kind of understood a little bit more that that adds stresses to the body and actually being as light as possible is perhaps not as if the most efficient.

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So we have a team of nutritionists who carefully monitor and we almost don't allow the riders to lose excess of weight because we know that that may work in the short term, but in the long term you end up with over training syndromes and low energy availability.

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And one other thing, David. So do the riders have like psychological mental help? Like, is there, are they therapists or counselors or whatever? Like do people, Is, is that part of the team?

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So we have a full time sports psychologist employed by the team and she interfaces with most of the riders. And there's really two aspects of that.

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One is the specific sports psychology side of things. So how do you deal with you, the leader of the team and you've had a really good start to the stage and you've got to the last climb and you're about to put in your big effort, which is going to win you the race and you get a puncture.

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Okay. Yeah, so, so there's, so there's, you know, there's psychological ways that you can deal with that. You know, the one way is you pick up your bike and you throw it off the cliff because you're so frustrated. Okay.

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And there's been that in the team.

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And so from a sports psychology, she gives the riders coping mechanisms. You Know, X happens. Let's do that. Or you get sick the day before the race. How do we deal with that? So there's specific sports psychology, but then these are people with lots of pressures on them.

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And so, you know, general psychological stresses both from riders and team management. You know, there's quite big pressures on the, on the director sportifs.

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So yes, so we have a full time psychologist, some of the riders, because they've, they haven't been with the team for their whole career and some of them will have been using the health of a sports psychologist prior to coming to the team.

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They may continue with their own sports psychologist. But yes, the team does have a full time sports psychologist. Yeah, very interesting. Amazing. I love how you like summed it up by saying there has to be this like marriage between having the physiological engine to do it, but then also the mental capacity to tolerate and you know, kind of bear what comes with having that physiological engine that allows you to do these kinds of things.

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So I think that's spot on, you know, and it's so, so interesting to hear how. Well, certainly it sounds like in your team there are so many measures to support both so that they can perform at that level. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, it's a process and evolution because you want to be continuously improving.

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And so from the team perspective, from the riders perspective. Yeah, there's, there's continuous looking at these systems and how can they be improved. Yeah. Amazing. Wow. So, Kent, have you got any other questions for David?

[41:53.0]
Because I think that I have kind of asked. No, you actually asked. The question that was on my mind was like, okay, that's like, what about the. Hi. You know, but yeah, I just think I listened to you guys. I was laughing with Gail and David earlier and I said, I just feel like you all mad, like.

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But it is. Look, I say that in jest, but I've often shared that like when the Comrades marathon is on, I'm like glued to that TV because there's something just so incredibly inspiring and like there's like an awesomeness you are in awe of, like how these human beings are doing what you are watching them do.

[42:37.2]
It is really phenomenal. So I'm so grateful, David, that you came on to talk to us and thank you so much. Yeah. And David, do you just want to quickly tell people if anybody wants to get in touch with you?

[42:52.5]
So David does run his own sports medicine practice as well. So do you want to just tell us a little bit about where you are? We will drop your links in your episode. So if anybody wants to get hold of you, what is it that you do in terms of sports practice that, you know, people might be interested in?

[43:12.8]
Yeah, so we have a small sports medicine practice in Hilton KwaZulu Natal. It's myself and Dr. Waters, and we do general sports medicine.

[43:28.1]
So we will look after any athletes, sports injuries. Lots of what we do is concussion management because we've got some big schools around here and.

[43:45.3]
Yeah, so we at the Life Hilton Hospital and if anyone is interested, our website. So Hilton Sports Medicine. There's a contact form there. Perfect. So we'll drop those links for you.

[44:02.2]
Yeah. So, David, thank you so much for coming on and chatting to us. Even though I always joke that I'm surrounded by cycling mad Men, I absolutely love it. I love the stories David tells. I find it incredibly inspiring.

[44:18.5]
I think a lot of our listeners know that I have an E bike. It's the only way I can keep up with the three of them. But it makes me feel like I'm like, you know, like I'm a cyclist. So I can only imagine how. I can't actually imagine, but those guys, like, you know, getting to the top of the mountain, the crowds are screaming.

[44:39.9]
They've been cycling for six hours and they, you know, cross that line in the yellow jersey or. It's just amazing. So thanks for coming in, David, and we will chat to everybody again next week.

[44:55.1]
All right, bye.